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Did Tottenham Hotspur bribe their way into the Football League?

By Tony Attwood

Having completed my short analysis of Woolwich Arsenal’s league results in the last article, I began to wonder what Tottenham’s results were like over the same period.  No particular reason – I just thought it would be interesting.

In fact it turned out to be more than interesting.  Here’s the chart.  After the year (which marks the second year in each season so 1894 is 1893/4) the next three columns are Woolwich Arsenal, recording the league they were in, the number of games played and the position.   After that the same for Tottenham.

Year WAFC league Games Position TH League Games Position Best club
1894 Div II 28 9 WAFC
1895 Div II 30 8 WAFC
1896 Div II 30 7 WAFC
1897 Div II 30 10 SL1 20 4 WAFC
1898 Div II 30 5 SL1 22 3 WAFC
1899 Div II 34 7 SL1 24 7 WAFC
1900 Div II 34 8 SL1 28 1 WAFC
1901 Div II 34 7 SL1 28 5 WAFC
1902 Div II 34 4 SL1 30 2 WAFC
1903 Div II 34 3 SL1 30 4 WAFC
1904 Div II 34 2 SL1 34 2 WAFC
1905 Div I 34 10 SL1 34 5 WAFC
1906 Div I 38 12 SL1 34 5 WAFC
1907 Div I 38 7 SL1 38 6 WAFC
1908 Div I 38 14= SL1 38 7 WAFC
1909 Div I 38 6 Div II 38 2 WAFC
1910 Div I 38 18 Div I 38 15 THFC
1911 Div I 38 10 Div I 38 15 WAFC
1912 Div I 38 10 Div I 38 12 WAFC
1913 Div I 38 20 Div I 38 17 THFC
1914 Div II 38 3 Div I 38 17 THFC
1915 Div II 38 5 Div I 38 20 THFC

The final column shows which of the two clubs was in the higher position – a bit nerdy I know, but well…

However what suddenly struck me was this. Tottenham make this huge fuss about 1919, when having come bottom of the first division in 1915 they were relegated to the second division.  Arsenal simultaneously came up, having come 5th in the second division – something that was as a result of the chairmen voting on which clubs should be part of the new enlarged first division.   (If you have read my little piece on the events of 1919 you will also know there was the issue of match fixing that needed to be dealt with – there’s a link at the bottom).

Anyway, let us consider Tottenham’s position in getting out of the Southern League.  Tottenham won the Southern League once, in 1900, but in 1908 when they were promoted, they came 8th.

Now let’s just ponder this.  In 1908 Tottenham came 8th and went up.  In 1915 Woolwich Arsenal came 5th and went up.  Tottenham make a lot of fuss about Woolwich Arsenal going up, and yet, somehow, the sadness and regret of Tottenham fans at having gone up so unfairly having just come 8th in the Southern League in 1908 has escaped me.

Certainly Tottenham could not claim to have been endless champions of the Southern League.  They won it once.  That was it.  So what machinations went on to get Tottenham promoted that year?

Was it bribery and corruption?   That might seem a little extreme to allege but then it is exactly what Tottenham have been alleging since 1919, despite the fact that the evidence is all there that there were calls for the match fixing clubs (Liverpool and Manchester United) to be thrown out of the league, thus making not just four places but six places available in the first division in 1919.

What similar event allowed Tottenham to rise from the Southern League to the Football League after coming a miserly seventh?

I think we should be told!  For whatever the reasons, maybe the same ones applied in 1919 when Arsenal went up having come 5th.

Of course we could go further.  In 1895/1896 Tottenham were neither in the First nor Second Division of the Southern League.  Yet the following season they jumped over the second division into the first.   How come?  It all looks a bit dark and misty.

Special article on the promotion to Division I in 1919

Woolwich Arsenal, the complete league record

Is Arsenal really a franchised club?

Just how big was Woolwich Arsenal FC?

23 comments to Did Tottenham Hotspur bribe their way into the Football League?

  • Andy Kelly

    Also worth mentioning:

    In February 1892 Arsenal invited clubs in the South of England to form a league. The following 12 clubs were elected: Chatham, Chiswick Park, Crouch End, Ilford, Luton, Millwall, Old St Marks, Reading, Arsenal, Swindon & West Herts. Tottenham applied but were not elected as they only got 1 vote. This never got off the ground as the other clubs got cold feet.

    The Southern League was eventually formed in 1894 (by which time Arsenal were playing with the big boys in the Football League). 16 clubs formed 2 divisions, none of which were Tottenham.

    Tottenham didn’t get elected to the Southern League until 1897, not through want of trying. At this time there were still 2 divisions of the Southern League but, strangely, no promotion and relegation. Clubs in division 2 applied to be elected to division 1.

    How did Tottenham go straight into division 1?

    Tottenham applied to join the Football League in 1896. They got TWO votes – their own and Arsenal’s(!). Fairfields (who?) managed more votes than them. Arsenal supported Tottenham as it would mean one less trip up north for an away game.

    After this they gave up applying until 1907 when, once again, they were rebuffed.

    After much lobbying on their behalf by Arsenal in 1908 they were finally elected to Division 2.

    Tottenham have a history of being “billy-no-mates”.

    Even Chelsea managed to get elected into the Football League 3 years before Tottenham without having kicked a ball in anger. By what means we don’t know but whatever their method it was better than Tottenham’s.

    The same season that Tottenham were elected into the Football League, Bradford were also elected. They had only played 1 season of competitive football and had finished 13th in the Southern League (yes, the Southern League – their reserves played in the Northern League!).

    It’s not hard to see why Arsenal were favoured over Tottenham in 1919.

  • Gf60

    Tony and Andy. Thanks. Still learn new things to learn every day. Wonder if we had a chance to vote/lobby again what the outcome would be? Reminds me of Annie Oakley who, having shot a cigar from the mouth of Kaiser Bill in 1913 or so, wrote again in 1917 asking for another chance.

  • Gf60

    Holy xxxx. Did I really write that sentence about “learn new things”. :o(
    My old English master will be rolling in his grave.

  • Tony Attwood

    Andy reading your summary makes me feel like writing an article called “What have Tottenham ever done for London football?” I know they were against Chelsea joining the Southern League and the Football League, they were against Woolwich Arsenal moving, and they have cast aspersions on the 1919 promotion ever since.

    Have they ever done anything positive for football?

  • Andy Kelly

    I can’t think of anything.

    Another thing that they bang on about is that Arsenal should be grateful for letting them use White Hart Lane during World War II when Highbury was used as an ARP station.

    They tend to forget that White Hart Lane was closed during WWI and they played half their home games at Highbury and the others at Orient.

  • Andy Ward

    “Have they ever done anything positive for football?”

    Getting relegated in 1977?

  • Timmy Tour

    “In 1908 Tottenham came 8th and went up”.

    Ridiculous statement. Spurs didn’t go “up” they changed the league they were playing in! There was no direct promotion and relegation between the leagues because they were rival leagues, not complimentary leagues. The only reason Arsenal were playing in the Football League was because they had turned professional at a time when the London FA was amateur and they were not allowed to play in the Southern League. The offer to play in the football League was made out of pity to stop them going out of business.

    Suggest you look at this entry http://www.blog.woolwicharsenal.co.uk/2010/07/22/henry-norris-croydon-woolwich-arsenal-the-southern-league/ for a much better perspective of the history involved and the strength of the Southern League.

    But there is other daft stuff on the website…..accusations are made against Chelsea here…

    http://www.blog.woolwicharsenal.co.uk/2010/02/05/chelsea-the-biggest-con-in-the-history-of-league-football/

    With such amazing non facts like the southern League was a feeder for Southern teams to join the Football league……lol

    Surely a bigger story then your laughable ones about Spurs and Chelsea “conning” their way into the Football League ought to concern Orient who mysteriously got into the Football League despite finishing EIGHTH in the Southern League’s DIVISION TWO!!!! They finished behind SIX RESERVE TEAMS of clubs playing in Division One. Goodness me….how did they “con” their way into the Football League?????

    There WAS direct promotion and relegation between Divisions One and Two in the league at the time Arsenal got their “promotion”…hence why the scandal. There’s no scandal about applying to join other leagues and being accepted. This article is desperate and written by someone whose research and knowliedge is minimal….shame when the blog contains other well-written and researched ones.

  • Tony Attwood

    I think you miss the point. When the leagues were restructured or expanded there was no set pattern of promotion – but the chairmen voted clubs up, down, in or out. That applied with the expansion of the first division in 1919 as much as it did with Tottenham going into the Football League from the Southern League.

    I intended the article to draw a comparison between what happened with Tottenham leaving the Southern League on a vote by league chairman, and Arsenal leaving the second division on a vote by league chairman. My point was meant to be that there is a similarity – if Arsenal “conned” their way into the first division in 1919, as many Tottenham fans have suggested over the years then Tottenham did the same some years earlier. If the Tottenham move on a chairman’s vote was ok, then so was Arsenal’s.

    Just that.

    But glad you like some of the articles I’ve done.

    Tony

  • Timmy Tour

    LOL….. nice try but you’re using spin not truth.

    The expansion of the League was not the first that involved the addition of four clubs. Previously both divisions had gone from 18 to 20 clubs. As far as the First Division was concerned the precedent had been set whereby the increase was achieved by not relegating the bottom two clubs from the previous season and promoting the top two clubs from Division Two. The relegation of Spurs, especially to accomodate the promotion of Arsenal came as a complete surprise.

    In reality there ought to have been two teams relegated and those two teams should have been Liverpool and Man Utd who shamefully colluded to present a desperate relegation haunted Man Utd with a much needed win. Who knows what the bottom of the table would have ended up looking like without that fix….it’s not as simple as taking into account the points Man Utd ended up with…it would have changed the whole tone of how the matches at the end of the season were played out.

    But that was hardly likely to happen with the League Chairman happening to be the owner of Liverpool. And with him being very close to Henry Norris, and Henry Norris both stumping up money while at the same time threatening to use the scandal to organise a breakaway from the League of the Southern teams if he didn’t get his way, it was then decided to put it to the vote with the League leaning heavily on the other clubs to vote for Arsenal.

    Arsenal had actually finished 6th in Division Two….it wasn’t till many years later that a mistake was found in the calculation of goal average and they were moved up to fifth. So to see a team leapfrog three teams to gain promotion told the story that not only was the decision to hold a ballot – that both excluded Chelsea and allowed clubs finishing as low down as 16th in the previous Second Division to participate – borne out of bribery and intimidation, the result of it showed where the source of that bribery and intimidation lay. It wasn’t long after when the FA were able to take action against the corruptive practices of Henry Norris and ban him.

    The Liverpool v Man utd “fixed” game was uncovered…but another game came under suspicion without anything ever being proved. Chelsea had beaten West Brom, who were at one time in contention for the title, 4-1 on the 17th April to ease their fears of relegation, though they remained far from safe. On the same day Man Utd had gone down 3-1 to Sheff Utd and gone bottom of the table. Two days later Man Utd had to travel down to London to face Chelsea who were hot favourites to win a match which would almost certainly condemn Man Utd to relegation. Instead a strangely subdued performance from Chelsea gave Man Utd a surprise 3-1 win. In light of subsequent events, allegations that Chelsea had already been guaranteed first division survival and could therefore concentrate on their upcoming FA cup final were whispered but never substantiated.

    Referring to Spurs “promotion” from the Southern League….it needs to be pointed out that the Southern League was in no way a feeder for the Football League, but was a rival league. It’s impossible to compare it in a straightforward way to any subsequent English Division. Instead it was more like the Scottish premier is today… containing teams whose levels probably stretch across the top three divisions. For example the likes of Spurs and Southampton had been exempt from playing in qualifying rounds for the FA Cup and gone straight into the First Round proper since the 1899-1900 season. Contrast this with Arsenal, who had to play in qualifying rounds until they got into the First Division in 1904-05, and Liverpool who in 1900-01 won the League, but had to play a qualifying round in the FA Cup!

    Being in the Southern League didn’t stop Spurs being regarded as one of the best clubs in the country at the time. And therein lies the reason they only finished 7th in their final season. They had been in contention for the title but suffered through the international demands on their players, none more so than the prolific Vivian Woodward who was called upon to play in England full AND amateur fixtures and as a result missed most of the season’s run-in.

  • Timmy Tour

    Tony Attwood
    November 17, 2010 at 7:25 pm
    Andy reading your summary makes me feel like writing an article called “What have Tottenham ever done for London football?” I know they were against Chelsea joining the Southern League and the Football League, they were against Woolwich Arsenal moving, and they have cast aspersions on the 1919 promotion ever since.

    Have they ever done anything positive for football?

    Let me get this right….you are claiming that Spurs being against Chelsea joining the Southern League and the Football League was a negative thing?

    Then you surely can’t be the same person who wrote that article on this blog I linked in an earlier post about how Chelsea conned their way into the Football League, claiming…

    Getting a non-existent club into the Football League when it had nothing but a limited company and a half-built ground, and when the club had already been turned away from the Southern League is probably one of the biggest con tricks in football of all time

    Can you?

    Surely not???!!!!

  • Andy Kelly

    Timmy

    I think you need to read Tony’s reply from January 10 again.

    Incidentally, it wasn’t a straight vote between Arsenal and Tottenham. The teams and votes won were:
    Arsenal 18
    Tottenham 8
    Barnsley 5
    Wolves 4
    Nottingham Forest 3
    Birmingham 2
    Hull 1

    Henry Norris had ploughed £125,000 if his own money into building Highbury. Did he really have the money to “bribe” 17 other chairmen?

    Also, if Tottenham had lobbied the other clubs they could have gained more votes than Arsenal’s 18. But, as we have seen, Tottenham had never been the most popular of clubs.

    You state that a precedent had been set when the two Football League divisions were expanded from 18 to 20 clubs. The bottom two teams in Division one were not relegated. Why was this? I have not seen any reason why this was. It may well be that a vote was held with Blackburn and Stoke gaining enough votes to stay up.

    Finally, I think you will find that the Southern League was a feeder for the Football League. Clubs in the Southern League would apply to join the Football League, not the other way around.

  • Timmy Tour

    Andy…..in its earlier years the Southern League was not a “feeder league” but instead a rival league. It’s true you had teams applying to join the football League and in later years it was certainly the case that the Football League was asserting itself as the stronger league, but for a long time the Southern League was almost like the Scottish League is today ….ie nobody could say where it lay in the pyramid structure as you had teams the equivalent of Celtic and Rangers who would more than hold their own in the Premiership and other teams who would struggle in the Championship.

    For many years, because of the rules regarding maximum pay the Football League had, some of the best players in England were attracted to play for teams in the Southern League. Upto 1905 only two teams from the Southern League had applied to join the Football League….Bristol City who had finished runner’s up, and Clapton Orient who had finished 8th in Southern League’s second division, behind six of the reserve teams of clubs playing in the first! So it was hardly seen as a step up in those days. In fact the regional nature of the Football League would have seriously disadvantaged the Southern Clubs. As for quality, while it was rare for clubs outside the first 25 in the Football League to reach the semis of the FA Cup (in fact none did during this time) not only were there 6 appearances by Southern League teams with final appearances in three successive finals, but of course there was a southern league winner of the Cup as well. The FA recognised the strength of some of the Southern League teams….which is why you had upto 4 Southern League teams given byes to the first round of the FA Cup while other clubs such as Second Division Arsenal and even some first Division clubs at the time were playing in qualifying rounds.

    It wasn’t until 1907 that a team who had won the Southern League, Fulham, applied to join and got elected to the Football League. The year after Spurs applied and so did Bradford Park Avenue (who had finished 13th in the league). Obviously teams who didn’t apply to join the Football League didn’t get elected! So it wasn’t a promotion or relegation issue at all…..not like the situation after the Great War. Spurs had announced their intention to apply to join the Football League back in february, when they looked like winning the league until the depletion of their squad through international call ups began to tell on them. QPR, who ended up winning the league, applied afterwards but withdrew it before the day of the AGM (which was on the same day for the Southern League and the Football League). Bradford had also applied after Spurs and got the one place that was on offer at that time. In fact Spurs were initially rejected by the Football League would not have played in either League the following season had not Stoke gone bankrupt and pulled out. so it’s quite ridiculous to say, as I have seen in this blog, that Spurs “fixed their promotion” from the Southern League. To summarise…

    1) It wasn’t promotion – it was an application to join a different league
    2) They had already been rejected in favour of a team who had finished 5 places below them AND only had one year of history
    3) The teams who had finished above them had either previously withdrawn or not made applications to join the Football League.

    The vote that eventually got Spurs in was a straight one between them and the team that had to seek re-election, Lincoln (who had initially lost to Bradford before the bankruptcy of Stoke game them another chance).

    Regarding the Tottenham, Arsenal situation, the precedent that had been set to increse the teams in the league was to promote without relegating, which as I said is what happened on the previous occasions.

    In 1898/99 Division One went up from 16 teams to 18. the two teams who would have been relegated – Blackburn and Stoke – remained in the division and were joined by the teams who had won promotion, Burnley and Newcastle (actually this is where automatic promotion and relegation started…. upto this time there was a play off group – not ballots – involving the two bottom clubs and the two top clubs and a scandal was avoided after a 0-0 draw was arranged between Burnley and Stoke to ensure they both topped the group)

    In 1905/6 Division One went up from 18 to 20 team. Bury and Notts County remained in Division One with Liverpool and Bolton Wanderers coming up.

    Following the Man Utd v Liverpool scandal of 1915 in which the players had colluded to ensure Man Utd won 2-0, the points gained by Man Utd ended up being the difference between them finishing above Chelsea. Of course whose to say what would have happened in other games with different pressures. But assuming that the game had not been fixed, it is likely that the precendents in place would have applied following the decision to expand the division again…the top two coming up and the bottom two staying up. But the fixed match had many people thinking that Liverpool and Man Utd ought to be relegated as well.

    I’ve never denied Henry Norris had lobbying skills. Nor that the League clubs had a sense of the old pal’s act as far as Arsenal were concerned. But there was no precedent for the vote that took place….it was complete nonsense to have a decision that took Chelsea out of the equation because they might have not finished there without the fixed game, not include the clubs responsible for the fixed game, and to allow a team who had finished 18/20 in division Two to apply for promotion!!

    So why was this “open” ballot held? Because Arsenal had declared that they would breakaway and establish a rival league in protest at Liverpool and Man Utd if they were not given Division One status. I’m not sure this would have been successful anyway given their previous attemps to set up a League – but there’s no question a lot of clubs were unhappy. And there’s no doubt that, with Liverpool’s owner as Chairman of the League, this would have been highly embarrassing.

    So the whole ballot farce was concocted. Derby and Preston, old boys of the Football League, were appeased by having their promotions stand. Chelsea were appeased by the promise they would remain in Division One. Arsenal’s threat’s made sure they got Man Utd and Liverpool on side to lobby the other clubs for them, and the old pal’s act swung into action. Many commentators of the time seem to have little doubt that Henry Norris had money behind it. I think myself there was some but not much, because his coercion, and inducements about what could be on offer with a trip to London, were enough to get the support of the other chairman.

    It’s ludicrous to say that Spurs were just not popular, or not as good as lobbying as Arsenal. While both those things may be true it doesn’t alter the fact that at no other time in the history of the League were promotion or relegation settled by anything other than where teams finished. The fact that Arsenal were opportunistic enough to use the Liverpool and Man Utd scandal, and the aftermath of war, to force upon the League this bizarre way of deciding who went into Division One is not really something of which to be proud, but shameful. The fact that Henry Norris had ploughed 125k of his own money into Highbury is WHY he had to go all out to secure First Division football and would do anything to protect his investment. The kind of man he was became obvious to all later when the FA banned him for life.

    That other place should have gone to Spurs as precedent decreed. If it was to go to a Divison Two side it should have gone to the team finishing third, Barnsley. But that’s why you see the name of Henry Norris, “revered” on Arsenal sites but treated with disdain on more than just Spurs leaning websites.

    And it’s probably why the Football League invited all the Southern League clubs to join them the season after, to remove the threat of breakaway leagues being established.

  • Nigel S

    very good read, for someone like me that likes all things Arsenal. I think there must be a bit of jealously with arsenal blogs particulary with this site due to so many non-arsenal supportets that visit them. I think the huge piece that Timmy Tour was written on the wrong blog, surely this would be of intrest to his own supporters. I was born and grew up in walthamstow and moved to Islington in my twenties. One of the arsenal blogs did a T shirt with for ever in our shadow (showing a canon with a small cockeral in the shadow) and this sums them up, they want to be number one but a number two better descibes them.

  • Take-a-tour-timmy

    “Being in the Southern League didn’t stop Spurs being regarded as one of the best clubs in the country at the time. And therein lies the reason they only finished 7th in their final season. They had been in contention for the title but suffered through the international demands on their players, none more so than the prolific Vivian Woodward who was called upon to play in England full AND amateur fixtures and as a result missed most of the season’s run-in.”

    aaaah the excuses come in poor viv woodward? only that reason spurs one of the “best clubs in country” finished 2nd? no… wait……. 7th? he mustve been seriously missed, lmao imagine that nowadays in retrospect… we surely shoulda qualified for the CL but we had injury problems? lmfao, wow what a dillusional charachter you are.. U pick and choose truths as you please and insert nothing but aspersions and slander to try and prove a point? typical yids i guess… And you accuse gunners of shady dealings? proof???? by any chance?? NO? then Mr redknapp in your opinion should be hung drawn and quartered without proof of his dodgy (twitchings)dealings sorry..
    GOONER TIL I DIE…!

  • Senthil

    I am a new generation Arsenal Fan and the only Arsenal I know is the Arsenal under Wenger… For me knowing abt the rich history of the club is something that i have always wanted to do… it is really interesting to read all this and as well the debates… have definitely learnt a lot about my club…

    GOONER FOR LIFE

  • King Spud

    Tony ,Tony , Tony…Attwood….tsk tsk…why are you Arsenal supporters so angry with Tottenham FC? We havent won the league in 55 years and yet Arsenal have won tons of stuff in that time! Its like you Arsenal toffs arent satisfied with your riches….u still feel the need to bully poor peasants Spurs fans! strange. There are so many websites like yours by Arsenal fans continually rubbing Tottenham fan’s faces in shit, so to speak. Yet Tottenham have never been a serious rival to Arsenal for 40 odd years, so why all the hate? Arsenal fans are weird. Instead, you Arsenal fans should be verbally attacking your real threat: Liverpool, Man Utd, Bayern Munich, Barcelona , Real Madrid. Juventus, AC Milan – not poor little ole Tottenham….! You bullies.
    Now, down to business.
    Arsenal had to be voted into the Football league in 1893, so u could go on about that being a fix, but what’s the point, what Arsenal did in 1919 WAS FIXED.The silly Arsenal rant about Spurs finishing 7th and yet still went up, so Arsenal finishing 5th and still going up is okay really….huh? Tottenham’s election to the Football League in 1908 was fair (the bribing stoke thing sounds great to Arsenal fans, but Lincoln were the real rivals) Spurs won by 5 votes to 3. Tottenham had bigger crowds than Lincoln and were the first Southern club to win a major trophy, FA cup 1901, so they looked the better bet to join the Football League. Nuff said.
    When the leagues were enlarged, it was custonary for no one to be relegated,so by rights, Tottenham should not have gone down, simple as that.
    Instead, what happened was, Arsenal were promoted to Div 1 because of their being in the league longer than Tottenham? huh? How does that work? There were clubs in the same league as Arsenal who had been there longer than Arsenal, but they never went up!!! The fact that their chairman at the time (Norris whatshisname) was banned from football for cheating, gives the impression something fishy was going on before Arsenal won the election!
    So, come on, Tony, admit it, Arsenal should do the decent thing and be demoted to the second tier – they can keep all their trophies won since 1919, coz they did win them fairly.
    Its the manly thing to do, Tony…we should set up a pressure group demanding Arsenal be relegated – for the sake of what is morally just in football!
    ps, who do u want to win the league, Spurs or Leicester?

  • An interesting piece King Spud, but sadly not true on several points – and lacking in evidence. “Arsenal had to be voted into the Football league in 1893, so u could go on about that being a fix, but what’s the point, what Arsenal did in 1919 WAS FIXED.” The offer of the donation to charity for evidence is still there, and still unclaimed.

    “The fact that their chairman at the time (Norris whatshisname) was banned from football for cheating…” even that bit isn’t right.

    Hey ho.

  • King Spud

    hehehe…even an alien from another planet could see Arsenal’s promotion to Div 1 in 1919 was unfair….purely on the grounds that they finished 5th and/or they werent the longest serving league club in Div 2 1914-15 season. There’s no logical grounds for Arsenal being promoted, except for something underhand going on….which brings me back to that Norris cheat!
    You cant get away from it mate…its tarnished Arsenal’s history forever.
    Dont worry, Spurs had 12 points deducted for being naughty…although some lawyer got em off the hook, but Spurs were still up to no good….so, bear up, all clubs have skeletons in their cupboard.
    Geez, u Arsenal fans are so bitter when it comes to the truth on this matter.

  • Nigel

    King Spud

    Sorry but it seems to be the Spurs fans who are so bitter on this subject. Understandable but it was within league regulations. It was 97 years ago so why not move on!

  • King Spud

    It does matter when an injustice is carried out, be it 100, 200 , 300 years ago or 1, 3, 3 days ago. not bitter, just seems unfair the way Arsenal got plonked in the top tier…i’ve always been a fair person, i believe in justice. Arsenal FC should do the right thing and plonk themselves back in the second division, but this time get promoted fairly.
    I couldn’t give a damn if spurs lost 1- 10 to Arsenal at home – as long as Arsenal won it fairly.

  • King Spud

    cheating 1919
    cheating 2020
    – makes no difference

  • Nigel

    King Spud

    It was not an injustice. As Tony says what proof have you of a fixed ballot. Spurs came bottom the last season before world war one so had no right under the rules to automatically keep their place in the first division. It didn’t do them much harm though as they were promoted the next season with a record number of points so due credit to them.

    I cannot understand why you and some other Spurs supporters keep harping on about the events of 1913 and 1919 (not 2020 which hasn’t arrived yet). Most of the Spurs fans I know, relatives, work colleagues and friends couldn’t care less and enjoy the good hearted banter we have. Two great clubs in north London, I say again enjoy the rivalry and get rid of this silly attitude. It is at the end of the day only sport, far worse events have happened in history so get your priorities right instead of acting so petulant about things that happened all that time ago. You say you are a fair person, and I am sure you are, so can you not see it is not worth worrying about. Arsenal and Spurs have appeared to get on well with each other for many years so why not the true supporters of both as well. Keep well and enjoy your club.

  • King Spud

    It is worth worrying about, anything unjust worries me, be it 1818 0r 1919. No evidence of a fixed ballot…but the signs are all there….very strange to choose Arsenal over other worthy clubs ….something fishy going on….
    The Germans seem to think it matters what happened in the distant past, a 95 year old is on trial in Germany at the moment for crimes committed during WW2.
    It was not written in stone for the bottom team to stay up when the league was enlarged, but it was the usual procedure when the league was enlarged….then, all of a sudden, they changed their minds and demoted Tottenham and capriciously put Arsenal in Tottenham’s place, even though Arsenal only finished 5th!!! You wouldnt make it up! Its a classic plot for an intriguing story about power and corruption!
    i’m not that interested in football, i couldnt give a damn if Spurs lost 10 – 0 to Arsenal at White Hart Lane, so i’m not arguing from the standpoint of some disgruntled Tottenham fan who hates Arsenal supporters with all his might.
    I still believe Arsenal should do the decent thing and stand down from their lofty position and play in the second tier,thereby be promoted FAIRLY, if indeed they get promoted, they might get stuck in the lower leagues!

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