Comments on: The “fixed” promotion, the corruption and the match fixing. How the Football League does business

By: Tony Attwood

Tony Attwood — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:46:42 +0000

Tony Hill’s comments are interesting in that they are presented without any reference back to the evidence. There’s no mention of the articles in Athletic News in 1919 for example, which is a major source of evidence, nor of Henry Norris previous reporting of a fixed Liverpool game, in the 1913/14 season. The suggestion that Norris upset the locals in Islington is right, but only up to a point – the Highbury Defence League was active, but then there was a second group, just as active, supporting the move. Indeed in the weeks after the start of the 1913/14 season the local papers were full of comments about how the crowd dissipated very quickly after the game.

There is no mention of all the other elections to and from leagues in the years leading up to 1919 which are highly relevant if the issue of Arsenal’s 5th position is to be considered. There is some evidence that the board of Liverpool supported Arsenal, but there is also some evidence that Norris was keen that the match fixing scandal should not be forgotten.

But perhaps mostly the writer, like most Tottenham supporting writers, makes no reference to the fact that Arsenal got more than half the votes in a ballot involving seven clubs who applied for that promotion.

I am always willing to admit that I have got things wrong in the history of Arsenal, and have done so many times on this site, and have often been corrected (just see the comments Andy Kelly has made on my work for example!) but my writing on Arsenal’s history is based on research and if it is to be contradicted some evidence should be supplied.

Certainly the comments about Norris in general are just silly without taking into account the context of the Norris/Humble directorship of the club from 1910 to 1927. Or come to that Norris’ political views, as made clear when he stood for Parliament in 1918 and was elected for the coalition government.

By: Tony Hill

Tony Hill — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 14:31:01 +0000

The book is inaccurate in its biased writing. Liverpool & Manu were fined for match fixing.
Norris was known to be corrupt for years & was a Fulham supporter who saw a chance to gain some publicity. Arsenal were promoted after a lot of prompting,kindest word i could use, from Smith the FL Chairman who happened to be on Liverpools board & was ‘connected’ to helping Norris get his wish.
Spurs were told they would not be relegated as the Division one was being expanded to 22 teams. If anyone should have been relegated it should have been Manu & Liverpool for match fixing.
Why have Arsenal always been known as ‘Lucky’ Arsenal & cheating Arsenal? It has been sang at many of the premiership clubs even today. A lot of the clubs & fans in the 1920s & 1930s refered to Arsenal with the same contempt.
You would think the way Arsenal fans & their club speak today that they are the most honest club in history. Good luck with Usmanov! your going to need it.

By: Tony Hill

Tony Hill — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 14:02:33 +0000

The usual Arsenal bias. How come if Norris was so good he was banned from football for life for bribing players to his club? He also upset locals with his aggresive moving in to the area of Highbury. The dig at Liverpool is unwarrented as Smith,who was on the board at Liverpool, the FL chairman was a buddy of Norris & worked hand in hand to get them a chance of election to the top flight. The fact Arsenal only finished 5th in the 2nd division was ignored. The biased writings of a lot of Arsenal fans on here proves the point that they have always been the most one eyed viewers of football. Ironically they have a one eyed manager today in Arsene Wenger.

By: Steve Palmer

Steve Palmer — Thu, 18 Nov 2010 12:03:44 +0000

All this arguing about who belongs where and who started where amazes me does it matter,some would say yes but Arsenal have fans far and wide they are one of the biggest clubs in the world we have history years and years of history, fans and supporters dont all live in north london the ones who do travel from outside of London to support and follow their life long club,they would at times love the EMS to be in their home town so they can support easier, north london is not the most attractive place in the world, me being an east ender realises that my part is probably worse, but now i’m in hertfordshire and i would love the EMS to be there, we were lucky to find a site to build our stadiam still close to where we were before and a lot closer from where we came from before, the idea of moveing from Highbury was Financial and probably the same from Woolwich, you support the greatest team in the world whether in north london or anywhere else, its the club not the place.

By: Woolwich Arsenal – the complete league record. « The History of Arsenal FC

Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:47:25 +0000

[...] The rest of the story is told in our special article on the promotion to Division I [...]

By: Andy Kelly

Andy Kelly — Mon, 01 Nov 2010 18:54:50 +0000

Arsenal finished 6th in Division Two at the end of 1914/15 although they should have finished 5th due to a miscalculation in goal average. The first world war then intervened. As far as the Football League were concerned prior to football resuming again in 1919 Arsenal had finished 6th.

It was due to Henry Norris that Arsenal were elected to Divsion One for the 1919/20 season.

Even if Arsenal had finished 3rd in 1914/15 they wouldn’t have been automatically promoted as only two teams are promoted and relegated between the top two divisions until the mid 1970s.

By: Matthew

Matthew — Mon, 01 Nov 2010 18:14:26 +0000

did Arsenal finish 3 in division two this season or what it purely down to henry norris that we got promoted?

By: Norflondoner

Norflondoner — Sun, 03 Oct 2010 21:37:57 +0000

The last use of (enfield and parts of greater London west aside0 was 65,as was pointed out. But the fact remains that all of London outside the city walls(which itself is in Middlesex despite being given political independance)north of the thames west of the lea was in Middlesex.Look at things like the Middlesex guild hall,Middx hospital and indeed the county ground Lords.
This “we’re more London than you is really slumming it”
Q1 F*8king awful, was 8 years old ,broke me heart.hope never to have to go through it again.
Q2 Real football fans enjoy winning whatever trophies, wouldnt be first on my list ,but i wont knock it.
Q3 Already answered and explained
Q4 Tell me a London club who’s fans dont call themselves that?
Q5 Pathetic,as explained (Are West ham not a London club as well??)And Should you not be called “pride of Sarf London…Or was it kent back then”
Q6 I get sick of all football a on sky truth be told,its killed the Game.And that Music just reminds me of the fact.

By: Terence McGovern

Terence McGovern — Mon, 20 Sep 2010 19:37:14 +0000

I have some questions that as an Arsenal supporter, I wouldn’t be very well informed on but a Spurs supporter might have an historical perspective that they might share.

Q1: What is it like to be relegated?

Q2: How low does your ambitions have to be before you can regard winning the Carling cup as a major success?

Q3: What year was middlesex absorbed into London and when after that did the “pride of london” thing get slipped in?

Q4: How can you be the “pride of London” when you haven’t won the league in 50 years?

Q5: Would “mediocrity of london”, “awkwardness of London” or “Dismal and delusional failures of london formerly of Middlesex” not be a more apt motto?

Q6: Don’t you just get sick of that Champions League music year after year after year after year…oh wait nevermind.

By: Norflondoner

Norflondoner — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 00:00:26 +0000

Spurs were no more or no less a Middlesex club than Your lot.
The 3 County towns of Middlesex are Clerkenwell,Westminster and Brentford
2 of which are closer to the City of London(the only part of London to have always been so) than N5(or indeed N7)
Read old papers reports of games, we are always refered to as north London(certainly since the early part of the 20th Century anyway)The N17 post code was in place back then as well.To say we were considered anyless a london club than you is laughable.So by your reconing,chelsea werent either?
just another bit of bitterness due to the fact that your History started in in saarf London
Highbury was ,is and always will be(like Tottenham) in the ancient County of Middlesex.
Interesting site this though,credit where credits due